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Sin Shares !

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Sin Shares !

Post by The Alchemist on Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:35 am

Someone mentioned in another thread that he considered Poultry Stocks to be "sin" shares and he would not invest in them.

It would be interesting to get others viewpoints on these ethical / social investing matters like -

1. do you consider poultry stocks to be in a "sin" industry ? if so, do you consume chicken ? if not, is it for religious beliefs or because you dont like the meat ? are you a vegetarian ? do you consume eggs ?

2. do you deal in shares of DIST & CTC ? are they considered "sin" stocks ? if you dont deal in them for "sin" reasons, then you consume alcohol and or smoke ?

3. what other sectors / companies do you classify as "sin" shares ?  

4. As a person, are you Pro-Life i.e. Anti - Abortion ? or Pro- abortion ?

5. How do you feel about the Death Penalty ? For or Against

just posting as a matter of interest.


Last edited by The Alchemist on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:59 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : modified original post by expanding on theme.)

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by Suja1 on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:01 pm

I feel buying stocks is your choosing. One can only suggest based on basic factors, some my mine will fall in to this category. They are not illegal so I invest. Most of them are monopolies. Some times banks and finance companies might fall in to this category as if the customer don't pay the lease or mortgage they will acquire the property and sell at auction. They are in business to make money and not charity so as a business it is OK.

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by yellow knife on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:11 pm

Good area to discuss Alchemist

this area is checked by scholars of Islamic Finance when they made Halal White Shares

So the line to draw is difficult

For an example is it ok to buy shares of Hotels, when within the premises adultery and liquor consumption take place... finally the decision was the objective.. Objective of a hotel is to provide accommodation so hotel shares became white, so is air-lines... Mobile phone company shares are similar...once can load xxx movies in mobile phone but the purpose of having a mobile phone is to communicate...

Ok I have to quote the source Global Leaders in Islamic Finance and page 205....The subject matter is Is IBM shares Halal?


Now  when we discuss your word it appeared with Kith when talking about Bairaha or basically poultry

Regarding that I would say we have our own religions and ethics and better not to question them...

I eat all sorts of meat and fish... beef, chicken, geo-ducks, snails ( in french restaurants ) , pork..but I don't drink any type of liquor including beer...and that's personal

so if someone say a particular share is Sin so let it be...dont argue


In my case I buy shares of Disti, LION though I am 100% liquor free

My purpose of investing is to make wealth

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by slstock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:28 pm

yellow knife wrote:

My purpose of investing is to make wealth

Yellow to make wealth will you do anything , even if it against your consciousness ?
Just asking ( not meaning any offence) to understand your view.

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by slstock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:34 pm

I am eagerly waiting more responses (It will help me to understand some people mind better), before I comment. Glad some of you were bold /honest to comment like this.

This is topic I have commented on before. Need to find the link.


Last edited by slstock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by කිත්සිරි ද සිල්වා on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:36 pm

1. do you consider poultry stocks to be in a "sin" industry ? if so, do you consume chicken ? if not, is it for religious beliefs or you dont like the meat ? are you a vegetarian ? do you consume eggs ?

Yes, because taking another's life is involved here.
No,
I am a certified Atheist and I used to love meat a few decades ago,
Yes.
No


2. do you deal in shares of DIST & CTC ? are they considered "sin" stocks. if you dont deal in them, then you consume alcohol and or smoke ?

Yes,
No.


3. what other sectors / companies are classified this "sin" shares ?  

Gambling.

I hope this would not run into another controversy.
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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by slstock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:43 pm

Alchem, please tell me you are the one who is giving reps here Very Happy.
You just made me happy if so Very Happy

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by The Alchemist on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:44 pm

One more question for (Kithsiri) and others to answer along with "Sin" Share matter. Are you Pro-Life ? i.e. anti abortion. and also are you for or against the Death Penalty ?

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by කිත්සිරි ද සිල්වා on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:50 pm

Yes, I am for Pro-life but Not totally Anti abortion.
Yes, I am against Death penalty too.
The Alchemist wrote:One more question for (Kithsiri) and others to answer along with "Sin" Share matter. Are you Pro-Life ? i.e. anti abortion. and also are you for or against the Death Penalty ?
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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by yellow knife on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:59 pm

I am against death penalty... regarding abortions under specific conditions should be allowed...

Now SLS about your issue

that's a serious one... I too find it difficult to answer... lets say we buy CTC because its legal... but we dont deal with opium ..because that's illegal

But i ve heard tobacco is much harmful than opium and the least harmful is illegal...( There is a nice movie... MY BROTHER, BRUCE LEE that talk about opium)

Regarding wealth i have my own limits... i by now happy with the simple things i have and no more aggressive...

I will never do anything against my consciousness

In a stage drama " Adara Wasthuwa" , a girl ask from  a politicians are you doing all these against your hear.... Hadawathata ekagaw nemeida mewa karanne....

The answer of politician is ... Amaruwen hari hadwath a ekaga kara gena karanwa....

(that's a joke sls,,,,)

No I will never do

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by slstock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:04 pm

Hmm, this arises to an ambiguity. We can talk some other time ( maybe via PM/email).
If I comment now , some others may not reply afterwards.

Btw, I still appreciate you being honest and commenting openly.

Also I can understand the view when Kithsiri said "Yes, I am for Pro-life but Not totally Anti abortion."
For that I will answer and say I am with the same view. If I explain it might take few paras.

Same goes for Death Penalty. Confusing ? Hint: these maybe exceptions.
If one wants an example, I will give later.










yellow knife wrote:I am against death penalty... regarding abortions under specific conditions should be allowed...

Now SLS about your issue

that's a serious one... I too find it difficult to answer... lets say we buy CTC because its legal... but we dont deal with opium ..because that's illegal

But i ve heard tobacco is much harmful than opium and the least harmful is illegal...( There is a nice movie... MY BROTHER, BRUCE LEE that talk about opium)

Regarding wealth i have my own limits... i by now happy with the simple things i have and no more aggressive...

I will never do anything against my consciousness

In a stage drama " Adara Wasthuwa" , a girl ask from  a politicians are you doing all these against your hear.... Hadawathata ekagaw nemeida mewa karanne....

The answer of politician is ... Amaruwen hari hadwath a ekaga kara gena karanwa....

(that's a joke sls,,,,)

No I will never do

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by GroundedKestrel on Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:40 pm

I guess it really depends on what one truly deems as "wealth". It could be 5-10 million rupees or it could be a billion rupees. Either way, what i have learnt is that everything needs sacrifice. The bigger the amount you want to amass, the more opportunity costs that you will face along the way. Sure you might not be able to buy that car or afford that vacation to the Maasai Mara, but you would have invested in this super undervalued share / business (in your opinion) which may bear fruit or turn out be a colossal waste of money.

I drink (socially), smoke (socially) and am a connoisseur of meats of all types. However this does not prevent me from being a good parent, husband or son. I have been visiting Katharagama and Tirumala Temple ritually for a very long time.

Does this make me a bad person?

Anyway, my answers are as follows;

1. No, i do not consider them sin stocks and yes i consume everything. I am a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to the above. I will consume it with great joy but i will never take it up as the act of slaughtering animals repulses me.

2. Since i partake, i see nothing wrong with investing in them.

3. No.

4. For selective abortion. They should allow it for pre teen girls who are subject to rape/incest where they do not have control of the situation as incest births have a weak immune system and can be subjected to a wide plethora of mental illness. Also, the person does not have the capabilities to mother the child and the social whiplash will be destructive.

5. For the death penalty but that again comes with caveats as i do not trust the current police to give credible evidence. If there was a proper, educated, apolitical, incorruptible commission (ex; Eliot Ness and the Untouchables), i am hands down for it. Otherwise no because everyone can be bought.
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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by slstock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:47 pm

Can I make a bold statement to add spice to this topic ..

99% of the significantly rich ( I mean in the world or at this forum comparatively), do not mostly practice what they preach. ( specially is the case in their early stages to make their wealth( money) grow ....)


Last edited by slstock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by GroundedKestrel on Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:50 pm

What do you classify as rich SLS? Give me a figure.

Also, i don't think you would find anyone over USD 1 Mn (ANYWHERE) who hasn't landed a few punches and got a few bruises Wink (physically as well as metaphorically)
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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by slstock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:56 pm

I said comparatively.

So you really want a figure. I will give you one as you will nto be satisfied otherwise( again this maybe comparative to me or average person. Compared to DP or HJ it another story)

In Sri lankan standards, I think anyone who has over Rs 100 million is rich. ( that also satisfies you usd 1 mil )

Why? Doing a regular government job or doing regular petti Kade , or having to start from scratch on your own ( no major family assets or daewadda or sheer luck of the irish to land in cash on your lap ) one will not be able to amaze that much wealth just by saving.

Now growing your 1 million to say 5 million maybe the hardest and takes the longest
Next hardest period is 10 million to 100 million.

After 100 million to throw around , it becomes easier in many ways ( ethically or unethically). Do I need to give examples? think why.

Btw, I respect more and honor the people who started from scratch and grew their money from Rs 1 lak step by step ethically.


Last edited by slstock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:12 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by GroundedKestrel on Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:06 pm

I agree 100%. + Rep

Well.. its easier because you have a tried and tested road map that works for you. Also, the cultivated contacts on your road to the first 100 mil are also there. Having that much money also opens doors to places normal people are not allowed. Minimum investments that normal people can't even think of. The picture in my mind is like a millionaire's club of sorts.
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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by slstock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:17 pm

Btw for anyone curios, I built/building my life from scratch and by my personal effort.
I have not got lucky to win lotteries or had money fallen onto my lap. When I was in my mid 20s I had about Rs 1.5 laks saving to start with ( that too I worked my butt off to save).
I did not want help from anyone including family. I wanted to build my life on my own.

I am not from a poor family nor a rich family.
I think I said enough publicly here hehe







slstock wrote:I said comparatively.

So you really want a figure. I will give you one as you will nto be satisfied otherwise( again this maybe comparative to me or average person. Compared to DP or HJ it another story)

In Sri lankan standards, I think anyone who has over Rs 100 million is rich. ( that also satisfies you usd 1 mil )

Why? Doing a regular government job or doing regular petti Kade , or having to start from scratch on your own ( no major family assets or daewadda or sheer luck of the irish to land in cash on your lap ) one will not be able to amaze that much wealth just by saving.

Now growing your 1 million to say 5 million maybe the hardest and takes the longest
Next hardest period is 10 million to 100 million.

After 100 million to throw around , it becomes easier in many ways ( ethically or unethically). Do I need to give examples? think why.

Btw, I respect more and honor the people who started from scratch and grew their money from Rs 1 lak step by step ethically.

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by GroundedKestrel on Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:20 pm

slstock wrote:Btw for anyone curios,  I built/building  my life from scratch and by my personal effort.
I have not got lucky to win lotteries or had money fallen onto my lap.  When I was in my mid 20s I had about Rs 1.5 laks saving to start with ( that too I worked my butt off to save).
I did not want help from anyone including family.

I am not from poor family or a rich family. I think I said enough publicly hehe



 

 

slstock wrote:I said comparatively.

So you really want a figure.  I will give you one as you will nto be satisfied otherwise( again this maybe comparative to me or average person. Compared to DP or HJ it another story)

In Sri lankan standards, I think anyone who has over Rs 100 million is rich. ( that also satisfies you usd 1 mil )

Why? Doing a regular government job or doing regular petti Kade , or having to start from scratch on your own ( no major family assets or daewadda or  sheer luck of the irish to land in cash on your lap ) one will not be able to amaze that much wealth just by saving.

Now growing your 1 million to say 5 million maybe the hardest and takes the longest
Next hardest period is 10 million to 100 million.

After 100 million to throw around , it becomes easier in many ways ( ethically or unethically). Do I need to give examples? think why.

Btw, I respect more and honor the people who started from scratch and grew their money from Rs 1 lak step by step ethically.


Very admirable but a statement like that need to be backed with something substantial. What is the range of your personal net worth? is it all because of stocks and investments or do you have experience running your own business?
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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by Afourer on Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:57 pm

I want to answer one question of Alchems.
Re death penalty. I am for it. (provided it is 200% proven and all the evidences are in place).

There are some grey lines, lets say it happened due to a road accident, then its not intentional.

If there is a pre meditated murder, then the only justice to the victim is killing the other guy. How can the other guy walk away scot free? Two purposes are saved, threat to the society is eliminated and the justice is served. When it comes to death penalty, we should think of it from the point of view of the victim and its family.

Again to add to this, I think the poor maid who was given death penalty in Saudi was a mistake. I am totally against that. Its not her fault, its the collective fault of the agencies and the authorities who were ignorant when under-age girls were sent as maids.

I will not add any more comment though I can write some more. I just wanted to give my opinion.

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by GroundedKestrel on Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:04 pm

You need actus reus and mens rea to commit a crime so road accidents and incidents such as Rizana Nafeek won't happen in Sri Lanka.
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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by slstock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:08 pm

I tell this much voluntarily in public, you now ask "What is the range of your personal net worth?" and to substantiate it?

Now thats pushing it are you not?

I have already answered what you needed to know in a public forum.
I said what I said to back why I respect people more who toiled on their own.
Why because that how I mainly shaped my life ( from mid twenties) without hassling parents, shoe shining anyone , kissing anyone B***, or going after only those who I can get benefit from.

Anyway I will tell a bit more..

My Parents educated me primarily ( Thanks to them for giving a start).
Then I worked my butt off to get further educated by my own merit.
Then from there I use my own effort, knowledge , and brains to progress to where I am today.
( not too rich or not too poor , not a great big shot nor a sprat ).

I can also tell you my life was not a smooth sailing , where everything fell into my lap like in a fairy tale. It was with obstacles some will not dream of facing.

I can say I have educated 1000s in prominent field ( not stock markets) who contribute to Sri Lanka economy and World now, fought big battles for justice ( still am) , was a silent force along with a few others behind getting a parliament bill passed that positively effected multi millions of citizens of the country , had to give up so many things ( some would say I am crazy) to preserve principles I stood up for ... and to this date I am no ones stooge ... and if someone does injustice to me or someone I know, I will not easily let go

I may have said too much about myself in a public forum.











GroundedKestrel wrote:
slstock wrote:Btw for anyone curios,  I built/building  my life from scratch and by my personal effort.
I have not got lucky to win lotteries or had money fallen onto my lap.  When I was in my mid 20s I had about Rs 1.5 laks saving to start with ( that too I worked my butt off to save).
I did not want help from anyone including family.

I am not from poor family or a rich family. I think I said enough publicly hehe



 

 

slstock wrote:I said comparatively.

So you really want a figure.  I will give you one as you will nto be satisfied otherwise( again this maybe comparative to me or average person. Compared to DP or HJ it another story)

In Sri lankan standards, I think anyone who has over Rs 100 million is rich. ( that also satisfies you usd 1 mil )

Why? Doing a regular government job or doing regular petti Kade , or having to start from scratch on your own ( no major family assets or daewadda or  sheer luck of the irish to land in cash on your lap ) one will not be able to amaze that much wealth just by saving.

Now growing your 1 million to say 5 million maybe the hardest and takes the longest
Next hardest period is 10 million to 100 million.

After 100 million to throw around , it becomes easier in many ways ( ethically or unethically). Do I need to give examples? think why.

Btw, I respect more and honor the people who started from scratch and grew their money from Rs 1 lak step by step ethically.


Very admirable but a statement like that need to be backed with something substantial. What is the range of your personal net worth? is it all because of stocks and investments or do you have experience running your own business?


Last edited by slstock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:26 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by Afourer on Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:09 pm

GroundedKestrel wrote:You need actus reus and mens rea to commit a crime so road accidents and incidents such as Rizana Nafeek won't happen in Sri Lanka. It happened there because of the savage customs in those countries.
ok I dint understand the jargon you used. Tell me simply, if A, planned well and killed B, should A be awarded death penalty or not? If no, whats the alternative? And you think justice is done to the victim?

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by slstock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:14 pm

On the topic of death penalty , I will ask you"ll a question later that will be very hard to answer if you are against it specially.



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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by GroundedKestrel on Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:17 pm

Excuse me if you got offended at my intrusion into your privacy. It is just that sometimes you leave a me at a cliffhanger and then my thirst for knowledge violates all mannerisms and gets the best of me. I apologise if indeed i have offended you as that was not my intention.

Very impressive. Looks like you have really been through the mill. Refreshing to find someone altruistic in this day and age. My life is exactly at the half way point of yours.

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Re: Sin Shares !

Post by yellow knife on Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:20 pm

I really appreciate the language skills Grounded Kestrel has mastered


Last edited by yellow knife on Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : deletign of)

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